I have a bully

[bibathediva]

I had a behaviourist come and see me and the dogs yesterday..lovely lady was here for over 3 hours (found her from the APBC website) and she confirmed what i thought was going on between my 2...that Biba is bullying Lola    ,i have never been comfortable/happy with how they interact as it always looked very one sided and not at all how i have seen other dogs play
I actually feel quite sad and upset for them both as Lola didn't ask to be here and she has such a sweet nature and just wants to play .
on our walk yesterday we meet up with another cocker pup a bit older than Lola and the pup and Lola ran,romped ,chased for ages and Lola had the biggest smile on her face...which is something i have never seen when she is with Biba ... and Biba just doesn't seem to know how to have fun/play with other dogs so i feel she is missing out as well 
I also feel perhaps i went wrong somewhere with them and created the situation 
she has advised me what to do  and is sending a report and plan of action out...but if anyone can offer any advise it would be appreciated
sorry for the long post... im on a bit of a downer over this

[Elmo]

Ive no advice to give but dont dwell on what you may or may not have done just focus on the future and be positive youve done the right thing seeking expert help

[CarolineL]

bless little lola 

no advice really just wishing you lots of luck in being able to sort it out and hopefully you will have a happy house soon 

[Nicola]

What does Biba do with Lola? How old are they? I have had a similar situation here with Alfie and Rodaidh. Alfie is a very rough player and Rodaidh really isn't and Alfie does bully him sometimes. The reason I ask the age though is that as Rodaidh has got older (he's now 14 months) things have evened out a bit and although Alfie still harrasses him on walks sometimes which sends Rodaidh running back to me for cover they are much better in the house and can now play fight and wrestle without Alfie going completely OTT and absolutely clobbering Rodaidh which was always the case a few months ago. Alfie would jump repeatedly on him growling and flattening him to the ground and biting at his ears and neck, every time Rodaidh tried to get up he would knock him down again. Things have definitely improved in the last couple of months. I do hope you can sort this out with Biba and Lola too, but as Elmo said, don't blame yourself, it's very hard to know what goes on in their minds to cause things like this 

[Emmylou]

As Nicola said, don't blame yourself.  We bought Boo thinking Cosby would love a play mate (he liked every other dog he met until that point) but they've never really got on that well.  They are slightly better now that they are older, but there's def no love lost.  Obviously you want to address the bullying (which you are doing - good luck with that), but it may be that they are never that close.  Our two certainly arn't and that's unlikely to change over time - which is a shame because they both love playing with other dogs.  It is upsetting sometimes, because you do want them to get on, but as Nicola said sometimes it's hard to know whats going on in their heads

Good luck the training

Emma

[Cazzie]

My Goose would bully Otter if I let him but not a bullying as in ripping him to shreds   I dont allow it as Otter is still very young and I dont want him to get hurt in anyway, so I distract them with nice things when they start to get in the slightest bit rough. I am lucky enough to have dogs of various ages/shapes and sizes and let Otter play in a puppy manner with them and leave the big rough boys for Goose   I find Goose can be a twit   and still has alot of growing up to do but Otter is every way a gentleman in the making  

I know that different dogs play differently and do find some can be very rough as its in their nature but just want to have fun and mean nothing aggressive in the slightest by it.   Im sure you will get your 2 sorted  

[bibathediva]

thanks for the support..i think i just needed to tell someone 
Nicola ...Biba is 19 months and Lola is 5 months...its really been like this from day one of getting lola...which i just put down to new dog..old dog peed off cause new dog arrived..old dog putting new dog in place  but Lolas body lanuage is suggesting she is getting peed off with it and we have had a few minor scuffles..no blood or wounds just frenzied teeth gnashing
Biba does exactly the same as Alfie...its always Lola on the floor with Biba over her..neck biting,ear biting,squashing her.if Lola trys to get up Biba will pin her down again.its always Biba chasing Lola and pinning her down,never the other way around and if Biba hurts Lola and makes her yelp Biba doesnt always back off..which is the thing i was most concerned about
Lola will snap at Biba (and i dont blame her) through fear as she has tried every other signal to let biba know she is not happy with it and thats when we have handbag bashing 
I know Biba would never do any of this to a dog outside the house as she is quite submissive to other dogs..its just Lola who bears the brunt of it 
she did say yesterday that with age it will improve but obviously i want to do the right thing for them so it doesnt get worse

emmylou..i agree dont think mine are going to be best buddies and i can live with that..i just dont like the constant harrasment that Lola gets

[JaspersMum]

Can't offer any advice either but just wanted to say sorry things are not going 100% right now.  I am sure that in time they will learn to live with each other, maybe not the best friends in the world but at least in companionship.

Lou and Jasper have never been BEST buddies but now they have reached 19 months and 2 1/2 they are at last laying in the same bed together - something I had decided wasn't going to happen. 

Well done on getting help in though - its too easy to speculate but an expert is best placed to see the situation and interaction and advise accordingly.

Hugs to you all, 

[Nicola]

I do think it will improve with age but you are right to seek help if you are concerned and also if Lola is going to retaliate as it could then escalate into actual fighting which you definitely don't want. If Rodaidh ever yelped Alfie didn't back off either, I would always try to have distracted him before it got to that stage although you can't always be everywhere at once so sometimes it happened! I could spend days watching them interact (and I do!), it's very complex. Rodaidh is actually the one who will growl at Alfie over chews etc. and can take stuff out of his mouth and Alfie would never ever react to anything like that, he's actually the most laid back dog ever, but then an hour later he will pounce on Rodaidh, knock him to the ground and not let him up again! They have started on the odd occasion to lie together on the rug very close and Rodaidh even put his head on Alfie's side one night this week which is unprecedented so their relationship seems to be constantly evolving over time and I'm happy to let it do that and let them do what they like as long as neither gets hurt and both seem happy. Hopefully your girls will be the same, try not to worry too much 

[bibathediva]

 
Thanks Jenny 
I think i needed the help to make sure i was dealing with the right thing and advise on how to deal with it properly 
im sure they will eventually at least share the same house with a bit of respect for each other 

Nicola..thank you...it really does sound like the same situation and thats all ive been doing distracting them when i feel it is going too far but there has been the odd occasion when i left it too late or not seen them  ..they do actually lie close..bums touching  and Biba will very very occasionally lay her head on lola...its not allowed the other way around we have never had any issues over the sofa,bed,food,treats......bits of cardboard we have had issues over    so yes they are very complex
there interactions do fascinate me and i would love to be able to read them better but yesterday was a big help in understanding what is going on

[suzysu]

So sorry to hear about the problems with your babies     My two are not what you could say are best friends, they tolerate each other and are generally ok but they do get jealous of each other and if there are treats about they do have spats if I dont watch them  ..although never over their dinner    I'd love it if they loved each other and would snuggle up together.

Please don't blame yourself (((hug))) I guess its like people, we get on better with some people more than others     
I know how upset I feel when mine have a little squabble over food so it must be very upsetting to see Biba bullying Lola    ..hope things improve for you x

[LouiseAS]

It is difficult when adding a dog.  When we first got Jakey, Meg was just what he needed a steady dog with no issues or hang ups within the house but as he got more and more settled he needed more things like play and a little affection from her.  She couldn't give him this and we were so upset because he always used to play bow to her and she just used to growl at him      She occasionall yused to chase him around which he thought was great but they will never be snuggle buddies.

However, now Lenny has come along things are different for Jakey, he has snuggles and play on tap.  Meg can get on with what she loves doing, sleeping and cuddling up with mum   

[bibathediva]

are Meg and Biba related   as they sound like the same dog 

edt...it does make me feel better to know im not the only one been or going through this   

[LouiseAS]

are Meg and Biba related   as they sound like the same dog 

   Perhaps.

I used to feel that Meg was missing out on certain things but as she is now 8yrs old and very set in her ways (she's also a bit stupid) she seems happy with her life.  On the other hand though put her in a field with a whiff of pheasant or rabbit and she changes completely and becomes a naughty teenager again    I think she's just more a people's dog than a dog's dog.

[bibathediva]

yep ...definitely related as you have described Biba to a tee