Show vs Working - what's the difference?

[MaggieR]

Speaking from experience I would agree show cockers are no slouches   Maggie would run all day given the chance, but she is equally happy to just relax around the house when there's the chance to do so.  I specifically chose a show cocker because I knew I wouldn't have the time to devote in keeping a working cocker properly stimulated and exercised to be happy. I have since met a few people who have perhaps wrongly chosen the working cocker route only to find that they are really struggling to keep up with the dogs demands. I even spoke to one lady who had a working cocker tiny puppy but had no idea what the difference was, I can see that may well be where the problems with the rise in working cockers in rescue centres comes from.

[PennyB]

The thing is, what we want is somewhere between the two. Yes, we want a dog that is a pet, but also one that is active and loves long walks and games (we live two miles from the coast, and two miles from the New Forest, and we're often out and about at either, but especially the Forest).

I don't want you to get the impression show-type dogs are lazy couch potatoes although some might be There are plenty of show-type Cockers who love nothing more than long walks in the countryside and who also enjoy activities like agility. When I used to do more hiking than I do now (when I was fitter ), I always used to take a couple of our show dogs with me & they were more than capable of doing long hikes but equally if I wasn't going out for a long walk, then they'd be equally happy with a shorter walk & then mooching around the garden with me. If a working Cocker would suit you better, then that's fine but just didn't want you to get the wrong idea about show-type dogs.

My 2 are show types and I can go walking all day with them (ie, out for 6-8 hours; and they would still keep walking if I let them) and one is totally blind but she will still walk long distances. I don't have a car so when I've had an agility/training lession they've had to walk at least an hour there and probably more back depending on which route I go back. I know lots of other show type dogs who do this as well (even rescues who may not have had huge walks before then some of whom who have come from puppy farms and spent their early years in a shed the whole time). However, my two are happy with much shorter walks some days as well. My 2 are cracking characters as well.

[mooching]

So far, I am still leaning towards a Working Cocker, as I slightly prefer the look and the coat, and my husband feels that, providing we get the puppy from genetically tested stock, he will be likely to be healthier than a show cocker. Is he right on that? His mother used to breed blue roans many years ago, and so many of them had problems, so that is likely to be influencing him (but that was also long before genetic testing).

Even though I am primarily wanting my pup-to-be as a pet, I am home most of the day (I work part-time, and even if I am at work, my husband is home as he is an artist and works from home), so I was thinking lots of walks and games and company would be likely to provide enough stimulation - am I thinking the right way on this?

[Nicola]

I think there is unfortunately almost a split appearing in working Cockers with 'pet' bred dogs and real true to type 'working' bred dogs.

I don’t think I would be alone in thinking that a working type (perhaps with a little lower working drive/a little more laid back?) would be my ideal pet dog.  Not everyone wants the high maintenance coat and look of a show type cocker.

If Pet bread workers were 1. Home reared and 2. came from Genetically tested stock I would be very much in favour - I don't see why it would damage the "true workers" in any way.  One of the major problems with buying a worker as a pet is the difficulty in finding pups with Genetically tested parents.

Its a fact that sinse workers have became a popular pet more and more have ended up in rescue, the large majority of workers that go to rescue are ones from pet homes.

If people choose to research the breed as it is a WORKING dog, not a crappy watered down version and decide they are going to do what it takes to meet that dogs needs in a pet home, fine there are some very happy workers on here in pet homes because there owners work their butts off to keep them happy. BUT no way sould the breed be changed to fit this market.

I completely and utterly agree with everything Jo has said here, I meant to reply to this last night and forgot to come back to it.

When I talked about a 'split' in working Cockers I was still referring to all these dogs being sold as 'full workers', they're not crosses of any kind, but I meant working Cockers which are being bred out of dogs  of no proven working ability and indifferent pedigree. You only have to look on any free ad site to see litter after litter bred out of pet bitches who have never heard gunshot in their lives, and on a personal level I've lost count of the number of people who have asked me if they can use Rodaidh as a stud on their pet bitches.

A working Cocker with little or no working drive to my mind is not a working Cocker - as Jo says it's a watered down, diluted version of what the strain should be - and breeding dogs like this is doing the strain no favours. Unfortunately people often find it difficult to look at the bigger picture of what's best for the breed/strain as a whole rather than just their own preferences.

I think I agree with Crazy Cocker Gang - the working lines shouldn't be altered to adapt a dog to a pet market, but I do think that more Working Cocker breeders should perhaps be more open to some of their pups going to suitable pet homes.  Surely not every pup which is bred from good working parents is going to be a good worker in and of itself?  What happens to these dogs if they don't make the grade at working?

That in itself is fine, I don't have a problem with people who've done the research and know what they're getting buying a well-bred working Cocker if they're prepared to meet its needs, it's the fact that litters are being indiscriminately bred purely for the pet market and the idea of some diluted version of the strain arising from this because people want them as pets because of the way they look/their coats are easier to take care of that I don't agree with. The last reason why anyone should buy a working strain dog is because of the way it looks.

[Jane S]

So far, I am still leaning towards a Working Cocker, as I slightly prefer the look and the coat, and my husband feels that, providing we get the puppy from genetically tested stock, he will be likely to be healthier than a show cocker. Is he right on that?

No there's no evidence that a responsibly bred working Cocker from genetically tested stock will be healthier than a responsibly bred show type Cocker also from genetically tested stock. If this evidence does exist, then I'd love to see it

[mooching]

If people want to get a working bred dog for the right reasons after having done the research and deciding that that dog will fit best with their lifestyle and they're prepared to put in the effort to keep the dog satisfied and maybe try some sort of activity such as gundog training, agility etc. then fine, but going for a working strain dog on the basis of how they look is not the right criteria on which to base the decision.

I hear what you're saying, but, when getting a dog, any dog, don't many (most?) of us choose a dog based on how it looks, because we like the way it looks?

I appreciate that choosing a Working Cocker should not be done solely for its looks, but I'm not doing that. I'm looking at temperament as well.

[Cayley]

Please don't base your decision on the length of the coat, just remember that you can clip a show type's coat but you can't remove a working cocker's drive  .

[Crazy Cocker Gang]

If people want to get a working bred dog for the right reasons after having done the research and deciding that that dog will fit best with their lifestyle and they're prepared to put in the effort to keep the dog satisfied and maybe try some sort of activity such as gundog training, agility etc. then fine, but going for a working strain dog on the basis of how they look is not the right criteria on which to base the decision.

I hear what you're saying, but, when getting a dog, any dog, don't many (most?) of us choose a dog based on how it looks, because we like the way it looks?

and that is one of the main reason so many dogs end up in rescue in this country  

People buy a cute pup they like the look of with no idea how they are going to meet that dogs need when its older

[mooching]

and that is one of the main reason so many dogs end up in rescue in this country  

People buy a cute pup they like the look of with no idea how they are going to meet that dogs need when its older

Ummmm, no, I am not talking about the look of a "cute pup", I am talking about liking the look of the adult dog.

I am beginning to wish I hadn't posted this thread.

[Nicola]

If people want to get a working bred dog for the right reasons after having done the research and deciding that that dog will fit best with their lifestyle and they're prepared to put in the effort to keep the dog satisfied and maybe try some sort of activity such as gundog training, agility etc. then fine, but going for a working strain dog on the basis of how they look is not the right criteria on which to base the decision.

I hear what you're saying, but, when getting a dog, any dog, don't many (most?) of us choose a dog based on how it looks, because we like the way it looks?

I appreciate that choosing a Working Cocker should not be done solely for its looks, but I'm not doing that. I'm looking at temperament as well.

Yes people like to like the way their dog looks but particularly with working strain dogs there really should be so much more to it than that. When I decided to get working Cockers looks didn't really come into it, if that had been the case I'd probably have Irish Setters because I think they are absolutely beautiful. I chose working Cockers because I wanted dogs to train to work and having seen them in action, talked to some owners/trainers and done my research I decided that they were suitable for me and vice versa. Obviously people like to like the way their dog looks but when deciding to buy a working strain dog then looks really should be the last consideration, it's about the least important element of these dogs - suitability to lifestyle and what you want the dog for is much, much more important. I like Cayley's quote that's just been added, I think it's quite appropriate.

[mooching]

Please don't base your decision on the length of the coat, just remember that you can clip a show type's coat but you can't remove a working cocker's drive  .

I wouldn't be basing my decision on the length of the coat.

And a working cocker's drive is one reason that I'd want one - so why would I want to remove it?


<sigh>

[Hurtwood Dogs]

and that is one of the main reason so many dogs end up in rescue in this country  

People buy a cute pup they like the look of with no idea how they are going to meet that dogs need when its older

Ummmm, no, I am not talking about the look of a "cute pup", I am talking about liking the look of the adult dog.

I am beginning to wish I hadn't posted this thread.

No of course look comes into it - The first thing that attracted me to cockers was the 'look' of them... but I looked after one (a show type) for a while before I got my own so was sure I could handle their energy and mischievous streak. I have a Weimaraner as well and I love the look of Weims but also knew enough about them to know it really suited our active life style and I love the challenge of training and living with gundog type dogs - with all the problems and rewards it brings. I'm not very good at other types of dogs tbh I also absolutely love the look of English Bull Terriers but I KNOW I'd find them a frustrating breed to live with and they wouldn't suit us.

Dealing with a dog with a high hunt drive (as all gundogs and in particular working bred strains can have) can be extremely hard work and give you years of frustration.. my Weim is a rescue (there isn't a working/show split for Weims but she comes from working parents and has a high hunt drive) that I took on aged 2 from a home that decided that she didn't really suit their life style afterall. They had done all the usual puppy classes with her but hadn't put the time into exposing her to enough of what she was bred to do or channeling her working instincts. So she hit 2 years old as a big fast inexperienced dog with a very strong hunt drive and was totally out of control - I lost her every walk for up to 40 mins despite constant training, stimulation and help from anyone that would give it to me Even very experienced owners can struggle with very high hunt drive gun dogs - even when they own them from being a pup.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is whilst look is a factor, you are looking at taking on a hunting breed which can be a very big issue if you want to focus on having fun & long walks rather than channeling their instincts all the time - hope that makes a bit more sense?

My Weim is 5 now and a very wonderful obedient dog but I have to be one step ahead of her all the time and train her every day still, both my show type cockers have had periods of deaf bogging off after rabbits etc but both were a bit less obsessive about it than the dog with the very high hunt drive - which is something you are likely to get in a working cocker...

Please don't think people are having a pop at you, lots of the people advising you own workers and have been involved in rescuing workers that ended up in pet homes and couldn't be managed effectively so it's advice given with very good intent I promise

 

[Sarah1985]

Ummmm, no, I am not talking about the look of a "cute pup", I am talking about liking the look of the adult dog.

I am beginning to wish I hadn't posted this thread.

I think i understand what your getting out. I was attracted to getting a working cocker as I liked the look and when I start doing serious research into them I realised they were perfect for us, in terms of moulting, working drive, energy levels, inteligance, and size ect.

If its what you want and your sure you know what your letting youself in for then go for it. Lots of people advised me not to get a working cocker saying Id never keep up and it would drive me insane, but it was absolutely the right thing for us as I went into it with my eyes open. If you;ve done your research into all aspects of the breed and your happy that its the right dog for you then theres no reason why you shouldnt go for it.   

[Nicola]

Please don't think people are having a pop at you, lots of the people advising you own workers and have been involved in rescuing workers that ended up in pet homes and couldn't be managed effectively so it's advice given with very good intent I promise

That is true, COL is a responsible, educational site, it's here to educate people about the breed. It would not be responsible for us to blindly tell people what they want to hear all the time or agree with everything that everyone says, there are places where you can find that but COL will always try to make people look at the bigger picture and there are a lot of very experienced people on here who do know what they're talking about, nobody is arguing or disagreeing just for the sake of it, people speak from experience. If by putting across the other viewpoint it makes one person stop and think very carefully and if maybe one less dog ends up going to an unsuitable home then it's doing its job (I'm not just referring to the OP here, a lot of new members may read this thread and a lot of non-members read threads on COL to get information as well). Nobody is having a go but just trying to show the bigger picture as everyone on here cares deeply about the breed. Plus many members have been around for a while and/or are involved in rescue, and as Hannah says have seen first hand what happens (and dealt with the aftermath) when working Cockers have been in unsuitable homes or homes that weren't prepared for what they were getting.

[lisalh]

I cant get involved in the whole health side of this issue and tbh I originally looked at the litter I got Fred from as I knew I liked the look of COCKERs- We got Fred did a little research-found this place and quickly found out how lucky we were with our little laid bak chap as some of the WORKER stories would worry you hairless!! Needless to say we make more effort to ensure that we do enough to keep him happy and his (teeny tiny)little mind active and having a worker although not originally planned has suited us down to the ground so much so that we now have a second worker and I cant imagine life without them. 

Ooops am rambling away again- good luck with your research and search for a pup and whatever route you decide to go down there are loads of owners on here to help you.