Line Breeding? for or against.

[JohnW]

Having had a long conversation with a long time old school working cocker kennel owner, The subject of Line breeding came up and the benefits of it. Just really wanted to get the thoughts of what peoples thoughts were on this. It does seem to be quite common with quite a few of the more established trialling kennel's, mainly as they want to breed from sound lines with excellent temperaments etc. But I guess my question is where does a breeder draw the line and how closely related is it unwise to breed a related pair. I mentioned the benefits of COI to him and his response was that outbreeding can be like playing Russian roulette as you are taking a gamble on what dogs are being produced. Is this common with the more established show breeders too. And is it the best way forward to keep lines quite closely related?

[milly]

I have no experience of breeding and no experience of show cockers only working cockers. I think therer are obvious kennel club rules and common sense do's and dont's. My cocker is from Maesydderwen lines. Peter Jones who breeds them has been describes as knowing more about working cockers than most people have forgotton.
To explain further, FTCH Maesydderwen Scimitar is the result of a half-bro to half-sis mating. He's gone on to produced a high number of FTCH, FTW and great all-round shooting dogs which are very biddable and trainable and up to now I have heard of no dogs at all with any health issues.
I think you need to know what you are doing and he obviously does. I once heard that it's line breeding if it works and in breeding if it doesn't. Some things are clearly not aceptable like mother to son, full sibling to full sibling, grandparents etc etc.
I guess it's best left to those that know they're trade inside out and back to front.

[Maria n Dennis]

I know nothing about breeding and i have a not very well bred show cocker ,  on his papers it looks like he has a full brother and sister that were mated , should that be allowed ?

23-Cardamine Badger Boy
24-Cardamine Peach Melba    parents to Cardamine Skywalker


25-Cardamine Badger Boy
26-Cardamine Peach Melba  parent to Cardamine Just Jessica

So these two shared the same parents and then were mated to produce Cardamine Crackerjack.

[Jane S]

I know nothing about breeding and i have a not very well bred show cocker ,  on his papers it looks like he has a full brother and sister that were mated , should that be allowed ?

The KC have now banned the registration of full brother x full sister matings (along with father x daughter, mother x son matings) but this happened only recently so previous litters would have been allowed.

Line breeding is a bit of a political hot potato at the moment - there are those that believe any degree of line breeding is bad and should be banned and breeders on the other side saying "we've always done it so why should we stop now". I think a degree of sensible line breeding can give very good results without any health problems BUT only if the breeder knows what they are doing (ie has in depth knowledge of the lines concerned & any health issues in those lines) and as long as they keep in mind that continually line breeding to the same dogs can narrow the gene pool and leave you nowhere to go when you do need some fresh blood. In the old days, it was common practice for show breeders to line breed for a couple of generations then introduce an outcross to freshen up the mix but it's not so easy these days to find complete outcrosses. I think Popular Sire Syndrome has had a big effect on this & has made it quite difficult to find quality dogs that don't have the same very popular stud dogs somewhere in their pedigrees (looking at the pedigrees posted on here, it's clear this applies to working strain lines as well as show lines)

[Doggiecrazy]

I agree with JaneS, it has to be done sensibly and people have to know their lines but many breeders don't have a clue about the lines and they just mate their bitch with the dog down the road!