Growling & going for children

[The Waltons]

Hi there need some advice if i may,
Milo just over one & entire, lovely cocker but just recently he is growling more , at the young children but sometimes all of us. I do keep him separate some of the day, at noisy periods, food times & when milo needs some space. he has his bed in the utility & can see us in the kitchen. I have a big family & realise the possiblity of them teasing Milo & keep a close eye on that. but on the whole they are very good with Milo & he loves them.
Yesterday when Milo was in his bed he had a treat chew, which i do not buy often, anyway he growled & went for my youngest who is 3 , good job Milo was behind the stair gate, he growls even if they go near his bed or walk past him. He doesnt do this all time but yesterday more so, Dont know if he would actually bite them but i think he would.  He is very very sorry afterwards , we just shout at him & say NO, & ignore him, but is this the right thing to do ?  is he just trying to be the boss ?
Im not going to give a chew at present as he guards them too much.  He is definately better with adults or older children which i certainly understand, as little children can be too much & noisey. We have owned him from 12 weeks old.
any advice appreciated , we love him dearly & is a very big part of our family, want to take the best action for all of us.
jo.

[minimoo]

Has it happened since he had the bad experience at the vets, i wonder if its got something to do with that , i would get him checked out at the vets again, BUT not the same vet as she sounded awful

[The Waltons]

Hi, no he has been growling before that.

[black taz]

my only suggestion would be to get him to associate the children with something pleasant - could you get the little ones to throw treats though the baby gate (obviously with them not close enough for him to get through the gate)?

other than that i would just avoid letting him have anything that he is likely to guard (obviously other than his bed).

I am sure others will be along with other suggestions- but i think you are right in keeping the gate between Milo and the children.
 

[jasper_boy]

Not lots of advice but don't tell him off for growling. Its his way of saying that he isn't happy and its a signal for you to change whatever is happening. If you tell him off for growling and the situation continues he may resort to biting if he isn't able to give a warning sound to show his discomfort.

I have a fear aggressive dog and she is actively encourage to growl if she is uncomfortable as I can then change whatever is happening and she doesn't feel the need to bite first and ask questions after.

[Karma]

Your dog isn't trying to be the boss, nor does he love the children... he also isn't sorry and doesn't know he has done wrong.  These are all human concepts which a dog has no understanding of.   

I would really recommend getting a good behaviourist (not one who is still taken in by "dominance" issues, as they have been pretty much discreditted) in to observe him in your home - it sounds like he is stressed by some aspects of the busy family life, and this is being communicated to you by the resource guarding (both of chews and of bed) as well as general unpredictability.  I am sure that with a few ground rules on all sides Milo will settle down and you will have your lovable pet back...   He is in the throws of adolescence, so his personality is changing, and it could be that things would settle down anyway, but with children in the house it really isn't worth the risk, and professional guidance now could save you (and him) a lot of heartache in the future.

In the meantime, it sounds like you have a fairly good set-up with gates to keep him out of the way of the children... you could also get the children to hand feed him (under close supervision) to help him view them as a good thing!!!

[JennyBee]

Not lots of advice but don't tell him off for growling. Its his way of saying that he isn't happy and its a signal for you to change whatever is happening. If you tell him off for growling and the situation continues he may resort to biting if he isn't able to give a warning sound to show his discomfort.

I have a fear aggressive dog and she is actively encourage to growl if she is uncomfortable as I can then change whatever is happening and she doesn't feel the need to bite first and ask questions after.

I agree with this. We had a dog who was told off for growling and it only caused his behaviour to escalate - this is a very good article about the importance of growling: http://www.peaceablepaws.com/articles.php?subaction=showfull&id=1282173843&archive&start_from&ucat=1&type=Pat

[seaangler]

I think it just boils down to luck..With your dog...Are Peggy phoos just growled once at are grand children and we took the bone of her..She has never done it again...(the same with her food)...(other may disagree with are metered for doing so)And ALL are Gran children can play with her..Megan are youngest G.C will come in say Hi ya and make a Bee line straight to Peggy phoos EVEN while she is fast asleep..She may be starkled a bit BUT she would not not bite(just rolls on her back for a belly rub)...Its just are luck we have been blessed with a wonderful well tempered animal as to are Peggy phoos and also are Golden retriever getting a bit grumpy now but she is getting on a bit 11 years old...

I think it may go back to the litter if there was a lot of pups or not competing at the milk bar and also when they was all eating out the same dog bawl....mite have some thing to do with it!!!! I do not know it just mite be....

[bajoleth]

Hi, I do understand, I too have a large family 5 chilren, so not quite as big as yours and 2 Cockers, Belle went through a stage like this particulary with my son Tom, there was no explanation for it as far as I am aware, he would growl if he saw him, growl if he passed him etc etc. So I would give Tom a handful of treats for his pocket, he would get Belle to sit and then give her a treat, he did this before she had the chance to growl if that makes sense, within a week they were best of friends. I would suggest something similar to you and avoid the chews. He needs to associate the children with treats and nice things. Always be around at first though as you don't want him to be rewarded for the growling. I would also suggest getting the kids to help with training to, yet again more treats, if he is anything like my 2 who love their food , it will build up that positive association

[seaangler]

Hi, I do understand, I too have a large family 5 chilren, so not quite as big as yours and 2 Cockers, Belle went through a stage like this particulary with my son Tom, there was no explanation for it as far as I am aware, he would growl if he saw him, growl if he passed him etc etc. So I would give Tom a handful of treats for his pocket, he would get Belle to sit and then give her a treat, he did this before she had the chance to growl if that makes sense, within a week they were best of friends. I would suggest something similar to you and avoid the chews. He needs to associate the children with treats and nice things. Always be around at first though as you don't want him to be rewarded for the growling. I would also suggest getting the kids to help with training to, yet again more treats, if he is anything like my 2 who love their food , it will build up that positive association

There is a lady along the canel(Sibel) that has a ginger Cocker called Cila...Ever time i tried to touch her she just back way away from me..Another lady who i walk with over the park Cilia would come straight up to for the tip bit she give Cila...So i started to do the same with a boinio...She would just look on at a distance at me so i throw the bonio getting nearer and nearer overtime i saw them out together....now if cilia see me over the park she will come straight to me....Not interested in me one bit but for the boino..But i can touch her more than i could some time ago....So what you are saying does work after a time...Chris

[PippaMattinson]

I really appreciate how worrying this is but this is a very common problem This page: http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/Reference/health/behaviour/resourceguarding/foodabout.htm
Is one of the most visited pages on the GC website

The key to fixing resource guarding is to convince the dog that anyone approaching him is well intentioned.   Some dogs take more convincing than others, but most can be convinced with help . 
It is really important not to stop him growling by intimidating him,  because growling gives you,  your children and your visitors some warning.  If you try and stop the growling he may eventually bite without any warning at all. 

Hope the article helps,  but seeking the advice of a suitable behaviourist who follows the principles above,  would be even better.

Pippa

[seaangler]

I really appreciate how worrying this is but this is a very common problem This page: http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/Reference/health/behaviour/resourceguarding/foodabout.htm
Is one of the most visited pages on the GC website

The key to fixing resource guarding is to convince the dog that anyone approaching him is well intentioned.   Some dogs take more convincing than others, but most can be convinced with help .  
It is really important not to stop him growling by intimidating him,  because growling gives you,  your children and your visitors some warning.  If you try and stop the growling he may eventually bite without any warning at all.  

Hope the article helps,  but seeking the advice of a suitable behaviorist who follows the principles above,  would be even better.

Pippa

From the Webb site above.....

WARNING  -  A DOG BITE EVEN FROM A PUPPY CAN BE VERY NASTY.   IF POSSIBLE, AVOID TOUCHING A GROWLING PUPPY WHILST HE IS EATING, OR ALLOWING ANYONE ELSE TO DO SO.   WE ADVISE YOU ALSO HAVE YOUR PUPPY CHECKED OVER BY YOUR VET TO EXCLUDE ANY HEALTH RELATED REASONS FOR HIS GROWLING.

This will upset others But this is from My opinion opinion only...

As i have said in my post above...I have taken food and bones away from Both are dogs when they weer both young...Peggy in now going on Five (the cocker) and Cindy is eleven....and neither dogs have ever growled at the children....May be what i done is wrong ...But it has worked....

How often do you hear when the pups are a bit older they snarl and Growel at each other while eating there puppy food....What is the awnser.....To feed every puppy separately!!!!Its every pup for him self and only the fittest servive..But it us that intervene and will take one greedy puppy out or of the tit to put the one being pushed out!!!back in... am i wrong in saying this!!!

It also goes on to say have your vet check over to Exclude any health related reasons for growling..(Do we not pay these blood sucking vampires enough as it is To tell us what we already know......My opinion only...

[Karma]

seaangler
- in cases where a dog is growling (especially if it is a new behaviour) it is vital to get the dog checked out by the vet - you just need to look at Steelygirl's thread recently on here where her dog snapped at her baby and it turned out he was ill.  There have been other members who have discovered their dog's "behaviour issues" were caused by pain/illness - it really is worth double checking, even if it does cost you money (is saving the cost of the vet fee really worth the risk of a bitten child?)
You keep telling people what you did with Peggy and Cindy, but professional advice does not back you up on the idea that taking the item away from a guarding pup is the way to solve the issue - I'm very glad it worked for you, but for another dog it could have created far worse problems.  You can't tell what impact doing this will have in until you do it, so it's safest to follow the advice of respected behaviour experts...    And sorry, but I don't actually follow the point you are trying to make about puppies guarding food from each other... 

[seaangler]

I understand fully as to what you mean as i said my opinion only....

Quote...And sorry, but I don't actually follow the point you are trying to make about puppies guarding food from each other...

How often  your self must have seen it more than one time...When puppies are feeding Either in one big bowl or separately..The squabbling growling an snapping at each other that is going on between them all...

[Jane S]

How often  your self must have seen it more than one time...When puppies are feeding Either in one big bowl or separately..The squabbling growling an snapping at each other that is going on between them all...

I'm not sure this is common with well-fed litters - our puppies are always too intent on eating their share of the grub to waste time squabbling with their litter mates. I'd be quite worried if there was the level of "scrapping" you describe routinely going on over food