Eli tried to bite a child!

[eli]

Some background: Eli is about to turn 11 months old. He is a confident dog that has been neutered. He loves people and affection and will do ANYTHING for a tummy rub. He has been trained and still goes to training and is in good health. He was exposed to children between about 10-18 years, but few (he has met one or two) younger than that as I don't know anyone with little kids. He has tolerated kids touching his ears and yelling next to him - even touching his head whilst wearing the "victorian collar" after being neutered.

Being injured, I asked my father to walk Eli for me. They came across a young child (around 5yrs). Eli sat and the child reached slowly towards him. Eli jumped for the child, growled and snapped at him.  The most he has ever done before is 1) look hungrily at a kids ice cream, 2) growled when a kid took what he percieved as his and stopped when it was dropped.

I am shocked at his behaviour. Recently he has been trying to pull towards people when on the lead and I don't know if this is connected in any way. He sometimes barks at people standing in groups or sitting or standing still or loitering.

What can I do to prevent this from happening again? I will try to keep him away from kids, but I want him to be confident and reasonably safe around people of all ages.

He is very protective of me and picks up on my every emotion. I am very shy. Could he have picked up on my reaction to people?

Any suggestions as to how I can stop this behaviour and make him more reliable around kids would be much appreciated.

[HeatherandBenjy]

Being injured, I asked my father to walk Eli for me. They came across a young child (around 5yrs). Eli sat and the child reached slowly towards him. Eli jumped for the child, growled and snapped at him. 

Okay, there's quite a few things in this isn't there.....

I don't know how much contact Eli has with your Dad, but my dogs would be quite spooked if someone else (even someone they knew quite well) turned up and took them out for a walk without either my OH or I being there. It would make them very anxious and on edge.

Dogs, if they are feeling uneasy about a situation have two choices... flight or fight. Eli was in sit (you don't say whether he was on a lead or not) and so (being obedient) couldn't flee an uncomfortable situation, he was letting your Dad know by growling and snapping, in the only way he could, that he was very uncomfortable with the situation.

Dogs can also find it really intimidating to have hands coming across their heads. Having a child reach slowly towards them would certainly unnerve most of my dogs and they would react.

I live with six rescue dogs, two of them are bombproof around children and have come into the special school where I used to teach as therapy dogs. Even so, I never let children reach across their heads. Generally speaking I get the kids to hold out a treat on a flat hand, so that Fizz or Buddy can take it and know that they're on friendly territory.

My other dogs aren't reliable around children (and one is terrified of them) so its up to me to keep them safe. If we see children they go back on their leads and we tell parents who are saying that their children want to 'stroke the doggy' that its simply not possible.

TBH I think that Eli was in a really stressful situation and did well to give a warning snap. Please don't be cross with him, its up to us as owners not to put our dogs in situations that they cannot cope with.

[eli]

Eli knows my dad very well but I think you are right about him being nervous not having me hold him.While he knows and likes others he is STRONGLY bonded to me. He is a good dog and if you tell him to sit he will sit and stay until you release. I think I will have to work through the dog club and find ways of helping him to relax in situations he finds stressful - where I live dogs have to be on lead unless you want them knocked down. I still wonder if having kids tease him about two days prior to this didn't aggrevate the situation. As I said, in the past I have not had a problem. I will certainly keep him away from young children in the future.  I will also work on him not reacting if one does come too close.

I am not cross with him...don't think I ever could be...I love him too much for that.

[HeatherandBenjy]

I still wonder if having kids tease him about two days prior to this didn't aggrevate the situation. 
 

Absolutely! If you'd been in an upsetting situation a couple of days ago, you'd be very wary about a potentially similar situation and would be defensive. Dogs learn by experiences, both positive and negative. If you have some calm children that you can trust, it may be worth getting them to spend some time with Eli doing nice things, like giving him some treats to reinforce the idea that children are a positive thing for him.

[Karma]

Honey doesn't like children (a bit awkward as we have a 16 month old!!!!).
We didn't know people with children when she was little (except next doors kids who are terrified of dogs) and on top of that she was startled by a young boy who threw a long metal pole to one side to come and say hello - he meant no harm at all, but it made an almightly clang (and Honey doesn't like clanging noises) and she was terrified.

Out and about, if a child asks to approach Honey we will normally ask them to give her a treat, which she's generally happy to do... however if I am in anyway uncertain about her frame of mind, or of the child's ability to approach calmly and appropriately, I will tell the child to stay away.  I am more careful is Honey is on-lead, as she then doesn't have the option of escape. 

[seaangler]

I do hope you do understand this post..I did get confuse my self at one point

This is the way i look at it and with my dogs...I can not vouch for other peoples...I can only say for my own dogs and the way i brought mine up with my grand children all 9.5 of them


Its a case of being on guard at all times when children are around..But we just can not be there all the time..And thats the time it will most likey happen....When we are not on gurd...

...Lucky enough i to have two and two thirds bomb proof dogs...But saying that as dogs get older and like us(we) become more agitated as we get older...And so do dogs...

((But no dowt some one will say there is never a bomb proof dog))...And yes you are right...I approach a golden retriever at a show at Ashborne  and it  went for me...The lady said its never done that before....(yes famous last words)...

Over the park when i am out with my dogs there are as you know children around... Theres an infants school next to the park......it has two ways into the school one from outword street and the other from the park....(its a mixed school)

We have no bother with 45% of the children with there mothers as thet walk to school and they all like to pat my dogs....There mothers have ask(if there children can stroke the dogs in the first places and i have said yes....Are gemma just loves the kids she will do her full woddle up to them and the Kissie...Peggy will just sit and look up at all the hands coming down on her ...As said it must be very scary for the poor dog ...But Peggy is use to it and has been said bomb proof(maybe!!!!)

The other 55% is the other community...that do not like dogs...And if we are on the bridge at the same time with there mothers and there children..is different kettle of fish....There children cower behind there mothers and make the dogs more agitated....(will not go into that as i blow my top with them)

Part quote...

Its natural for dogs to love kids..(kids are fun with dogs!....They love to do things and dogs to like to swim.play run throw balls and the good all wrestle.

It's sad when a dog is afraid of Children because they are missing out on so Meany opportunities and friendships..

On the other hand children are loud and they move differently than adults do and are not always sure what to do when children are around....As been mention will cower away looking on from a distance..

I do not think you will fix the problem if you keep your dog away from children....(my opinion only)...I would first of all bring your dog to a safe distance away from children playing so he get use to the loudness the children can be....(Are park would be ideal for you at dinner time there play ground is right next door to the park and they make one hell of a din)

Get your boy to drop some treats near to him..But not to make eye contact or touch the dog and keep this up and then hopefully your dog will come around to see that the boy is of no fret to you dog....I did see this on its me or your dog with Victoria Stilwell...

I wish you the best of luck...Chris

[eli]

Chris: I understand! 
Eli sounds a lot like Honey.

Thanks for all the positive suggestions and support. I am definitly going to try to implement a few. I especially like the idea of letting him observe from a distance until he feels safe. Retrospectivly, thats what I did at the vet when he got a fright at something they did and it worked pretty well.

Once again, thanks guys. It's really nice to get support without being attacked.

[saffysmum]

You're not near me are you?  I have 4 dog-loving(and understanding) kids that he could practise with .

I have 3 dogs.  I can trust all 3 with the kids but they are living, breathing things.  The old girl will tolerate anything from MY kids but I need to put her into our room if kids outwith our family come in as she will bite. The middle girl is fine with older kids but not too keen on little toddlers so she keeps out of the way. The youngest is brill with all kids but....she is a madam so will bite if someone accidently leans on her or hurts her.  She sees the kids as littermates and treats them appropriately . 
All this behaviour is acceptable because I know my dogs(and my kids).  My kids understand that if the dog is growling, they need to stop whatever they are doing and come to tell me.  This works because my kids respect my animals right to be upset, angry, sore, fed up just like they sometimes feel.

[eli]

I'm rather a long distance off I'm afraid. Literally another country. I am on cockers online as where I am few people understand cocker spaniels or have much passion and love of the breed. I will get my only kid cousin to come and visit him...all the rest are teenagers or adults...when he is ready. He knows dogs, his family having alsatians. Thanks for the thought though...

[BillysMum]

i have similar issues with billy although i've not let him be in a situation where he feels the need to snap but i've no doubt if a young child was too over the top with attention on him, he wouldn't be happy. If i'm walking my lab and billy my cocker, all children always want to say hello to billy instead of alfie coz he's small and cute but i always tell them that billy is shy and scared of strangers so to ignore him but alfie my lab would love to say hello which so far has worked well. Its an awkward situation though but billy was around my Godchildren from a young age and right from the start he would hide from them and was never teased, infact they ignored him completely but i just don't think he's a dog who could ever live with young children, he's very timid anyway and little things scare him.