Bad Dog!!!

[jo.ebony]

Hi Guys,

Had to share this with you all and ask some advice.

We took Ebony and Juliet (OH dog) for a walk yesterday around our local res, we've been round there lots of times. Anyway half way round the res Ebony shot off into a field, which we hadn't realised contained sheep.
Obviously she went one track minded and wouldn't listen to our shouts to come back  My OH had to go and retrieve her whilst I had a near panic attack  She was mainly chasing the lambs, I think it's because they're more her size, she got headbutted a couple of times off the mother sheep, no injuries luckily.
When he finally got her back (it seemed to me like ages) she got a good telling off and put back on the lead for the remainder of the walk, we also kept Juliet off the lead as she hadn't chased the sheep.

I'm now obviously worried about when we next go round there. Should I keep her on the lead? or not? I take her to the res so that she can have a proper run and I don't really want to keep her on the lead.
But I don't want her chasing them again especially if the farmer is around as he's not to know that she's only playing.

Any advice would be helpful

Thanks

[Pudding]

well if it was me i would keep her on lead if i have to go there again
as the farmer has every right to shoot your dog for worrying sheep
sometime they can cause the sheep to miss cary

[MaggieR]

Yep - you've got two choices really. 1) keep her on the leash around sheep/livestock or 2) put a load of work in on her recall and even more when its around livestock till its rock solid.   I wouldn't be going back there with her offlead until you are 100% sure she's under control - otherwise as Pudding says, the farmer has every right to shoot 

[jo.ebony]

Her being shot was the first thing I thought about when she ran off

I was thinking of just going half way round instead.
However we've gone past them before and she's either not noticed them or not bothered.

This is probably going to sound stupid but how can I work on her recall?
It's normally really good, she'll come away from other dogs whilst walking past them etc but show her a bird or squirrel and she's off, it scares the hell out of me when she runs out of sight.

[Pudding]

I think you can also get prosecuted....
why don't you go to some training classes with her and work on her recall
i do an obedience class and an Agility class with Bob and it dose help

[kalami]

I'd keep her on a lead.
Yesterday we walked around a reservoir and no sheep what so ever, because of that reason we went back today, today however sheep and lambs are everywhere, so annoying. Felt it was safer to keep dogs on the lead. I don't think either of mine would chase but it's not worth the risk.

[jo.ebony]

prosecuted!!?? wow, extreme.

I've been thinking about taking her back to classes this might be the push I need.

Kalami, I know what you mean as I hadn't seen them there before, although we haven't actually been round there for a few months

I hate keeping her on the lead as I like her to have a good run but I think I'd rather do that than the alternative 

[Bluebell]

prosecuted!!?? wow, extreme.

I've been thinking about taking her back to classes this might be the push I need.

Kalami, I know what you mean as I hadn't seen them there before, although we haven't actually been round there for a few months

I hate keeping her on the lead as I like her to have a good run but I think I'd rather do that than the alternative 

I don't think prosecution is extreme , sorry    The sheep are the farmers living, if a dog chases and causes ewes to abort or kills lambs/ewes, apart from the obvious upset, he will also lose alot of money!
I probably wouldn't walk there for a while, but if you do keep her on a lead or long line, as you say, better for all, safe than sorry!

[elaine.e]

You really must keep her on lead or walk her somewhere that's sheep free. As others have said, she could be shot and you could be prosecuted if she chases sheep again. I'd also be worried that now she's done it once and had such a wonderful time, she'll be even more likely to do it again.

To her it's a game but to the farmer it's deadly serious, especially if a ewe or lamb is injured or becomes so stressed that it dies.

[KayJay]

This is probably going to sound stupid but how can I work on her recall?

There's a very good sticky at the top of this board by Top Barks on teaching a reliable recall. At the risk of being slapped down, I will say I really believe a dog should not be off its lead (or should be on a long line at least) unless it has a rock solid recall, for this very reason.......sheep worrying is a serious matter. She has done it once and had the most fantastic fun, she will almost certainly do it again if she gets the opportunity! Personally I don't take my dogs anywhere near livestock offlead because even the most "reliable" dog can have a blip and forget itself! As has been said, the farmer is within his legal rights to shoot first and ask questions later, it is his livelihood and the welfare of his stock at stake, and even if a cocker can't kill the lambs it can cause severe stress, injury or abortions.

[Ben's mum]

She was mainly chasing the lambs, I think it's because they're more her size, she got headbutted a couple of times off the mother sheep, no injuries luckily.

 Should I keep her on the lead? or not? I take her to the res so that she can have a proper run and I don't really want to keep her on the lead.
But I don't want her chasing them again especially if the farmer is around as he's not to know that she's only playing.

I don't want to sound harsh or over critical as I know you must have been very worried, but your post dosn't sound very concerned for the welfare of the sheep and lambs    and I wasn't entirly sure if you meant 'no injuries' to your dog or the lambs 
In Derbyshire sheep worrying (and yes that does sound more serious than 'playing' ) is a very real problem.  I know how hard it is as you want to let your dogs run, but you have to be prepared either to put the work in to get a good recall or to use a longline so you have control.  Ben has an excellent recall but because I know Harry is not to be trusted 100% I leave a long line trailing, but also would not let him run free within at least 2 fields of where I know there are sheep as it is amazing how fast a cocker can run when they sense a good chase is on    Like others have said Top Barks post is brilliant about how to teach a recall. Good luck with the training.

[VickyG]

we live in a very sheep/lamb dense area and at the moment as much as I love taking Henry and Holly on top of the moors for a good off lead run it's just far too dangerous.  Henry once made a bee line for some sheep whilst off lead and it took us ages to get him back, since then I would never ever let them off lead especially now the lambs are around, for one the farmer is quite within his right to shoot your dog to kill and prosecute you and two even if it looks like your dog is just playing with the lambs, the stress of the chase for the sheep and lambs even when the dog is caught can cause deaths in the flock due to stress and heart failure.

seriously stick to leads while lambing or off lead where there are no sheep, its not worth the risk 

[dal55]

As others have said chasing sheep is a very serious thing and the more your little dog enjoyed the experience the more difficult it will be to stop. You would never forgive your self if an animal was harmed AND your dog could be shot. I think it is advisable for all dog owners to keep their dogs on leads around livestock, even if they have a reliable recall, better safe than sorry.They can still have some freedom on a long line or flexi lead but you are in control

[penguins87]

Please just don't chance it especially if you KNOW your dog has  chased .

 I know someone who  has recently been charged under - the dogs (protection of livestock) act 1953 . The dog who is a super cuddly bundle of fun  had never seen them before never chases anything and off it went..  Two dead sheep later that day and a very very upset farmer.. The sheep died not by being attacked but just by being chased .

Still not sure if they can keep the dog but think it will be ok .. Still a criminal record and a very very upset owner never mind the poor sheep and the farmer 

[jo.ebony]

Thanks for your replies and comments everyone. Ebony will be kept firmly on a lead wherever livestock is around, as you've all said its not worth the risk.
I think some more training is in order as she goes into deaf mode if she has something to chase.
I've been looking at the recall thread and shall be buying a whistle, hopefully she'll respond to that.