our dogs have had 2 fights recently

[CJAce1961]

Hi everyone, i wonder if anyone can offer us advice. We have 3 male cocker spaniels who have really always got on well until about a week ago. Our oldest Jools is two and a half and he was neutered when he was 9 months old as he only had one dropped testicle. We then had Teddy arrive when Jools was about 6 months old with no problems. We then decided on one more and Beau arrived and is now over 6 months old. They have all had minor scuffles when playing but it has never got out of hand. However this last week Jools and Beau have had 2 fights which we have really struggled to seperate. They both hurt their each others ears slightly but we are worried if we hadnt seperated them one could have hurt the other more. It took us at least 2 or 3 minutes to get them apart and we both got nipped in doing so. It seemed as if the slightest thing set them off. The first time we had arrived home after being out for a couple of hours and they were excited to see us and all of a sudden having a fuss turned into a fight. The second time seemed to be over their dinners that were being prepared.Do you feel this could get worse, and is it something that hopefully will disapear as Beau gets a little older. It does seem as though Jools our eldest seems to be the top dog, and he seems to be initiating the trouble. I have wondered if neutering the others 2 would help, but it does seem unnecessary especially on poor Teddy. Could anyone advise us please, and we are hopeful it wont continue, many thanks regards, Debbie 

[cazza]

There is obviously something going on here and as we can't see them on the forum and read their body language I suggest you get in a behaviourist to access the situation and give you some sound advice

Not sure where you are in the country but if you let us know someone will know of a good behaviourist near you I am sure

[elaine.e]

Agree with Cazza that a good behaviourist will be able to see what's going on, something that's impossible on a forum. It's probably linked to Beau becoming an adolescent and pushing boundaries, but as it's gone beyond minor scuffles it could be time for some professional help.

As you've already pinpointed two triggers for trouble (mealtimes and when you arrive home) you can take some measures to lessen the chances of further fighting at those times.

When you're preparing their food and feeding them can you put either Jools or Beau in a different room or the garden? That might lessen some of the tension.

When you come back to the house and the dogs greet you try keeping it low key by walking in without saying hello and immediately let them in the garden as a distraction. They'll probably need a pee anyway and being outside for a short while gives them something to focus on other than you.

Are you able to leave Jools and Beau in separate areas of the house when you're out? They might be fine with each other when nobody is around but it would be awful if they had a serious fight when you were out and you cam back to injured dogs.

Hope you can find some solutions soon

[CJAce1961]

Thankyou so much for the advice. We do pretty much what has been suggested already. We are trying to not make a fuss of them when we get up in the morning, or when we come home. When we are preparing their food they all sit and wait and there is never a problem. They actually had a fight when i was cooking our food. Beau was sitting in the corner and it seemed as if Jools resented him sitting there. I will say that they seem to be staring each other out a couple of times during the day but it never gets into any kind of trouble. I am wondering if Beau is reluctantly letting Jools be the top dog. Once the fighting was over both times about 10 mins later they were alongside each other with their tails wagging almost as if they were making up. We live in Benfleet in Essex, so if anyone could suggest a behaviour person it would be very appreciated. Thankyou for your help, regards, Debbie

[Jessie_Pup]

There is a COAPE  behaviourist in Leigh on Sea.    www.furrylittlemonsters.co.uk.

[CJAce1961]

Hi again, well what a difference the week has made. We looked on line and found a lot out about our dogs behaviour. We found out that a lot of the behaviour they were displaying was as suggested to challenge for top dog. However it was clear that we were not letting them know we are the bosses. We have now found that if we go out at all and leave them, when we arrive home we ignore their excited behaviour and greet them on our terms and make them sit before we say hello to them.
Also we now ensure that when we go out into the garden, or for a walk we are always the first out of the door, and that they always walk alongside us not in front.
We have never had a problem when we feed them, as they have always sat and waited and know the order in which they are fed. However we did have a problem once when we were cooking our food. Beau sat by Debbies feet, and we always thought this quite sweet until we realise now that he was in fact guarding not only Debbie but the food she was cooking, and that is how the fight started. Now after a week of setting down the strict guideline we cannot believe the difference. There is no stress between the boys at all, and when Deb is cooking they are really happy to snuggle up in their beds. It almost seems as though the stress has gone from them as well. We are going to keep on with the regime, which isnt strict but is disciplined, as we would hate another scene as the 2 fights they had last weekend.
To us now it is easy for us to realise what triggered the fights and why. Up to that point we never had a problem, but we can see that we were sending the wrong signals to the dogs.
We have net a lady today who has suggested having both Teddy and Beau neutered, as they are our pets and we will not breed form them. Beau has in fact endorsements on his pedigree anyway. However, i would rather not put them through this until we get some sound advise, which is what i am asking for opinions on from all who can advise on the forum. We had no option with Jolls as after 10months it was obvious that his other testicle wasnt going to drop and it was suggested by the vet it needed to be done for health reasons. However im sure if we ask the vet they would suggest straight away neutering both of them, as it seems to be their view always. Could anyone advise what they feel would be correct thing to do, as it does seem that we have nipped the problem in the bud at the moment with Beau and Jols,and poor Teddy has never challenged either of them and is a really placid boy. Any suggestions would be really appreciated, regards, Chris  

[Alex77]

Hi Chris.  For the most part we can all only really advise based on our own experiences.  I've got 3 dogs, 8 yrs, 6yrs and 2yrs.  the two older are neutred girls, and Jasper is an unneutred boy.  when i got dog number two, as she approached eight/nine months (puberty i guess!), she and poppy (my first girl) started to have fights.  Not all the time, and it did indeed turn out to be a short phase but it was scary enough for me to think oh eck - have i done right getting another dog!  I read around alot, and remembered my breeder saying when i got Ember and was debating boy or girl, that two bitches could fight to the death (bit dramatic but..).  The fights were always over food e.g. a chew.  Simple, i removed the problem starter, asserted my self (found my loud voice when they gave the evil eye to each other), and to be honest, these spats happened probably 6 or 7 times over a period of 4 or 5 months.  Basically, they grew out of it.  In between these spats they'd be great friends again!
With Jasper, there's only ever been i think one spat with my oldest dog, and that was over me!  so, i separated them, and Jasper learned that any growls or 'evils' from him to the other dog earned a 'hop it' from me.  No probs.

Your dogs are very close in age, which i think makes it more difficult, as none of them is fully grown up yet.  So like kids (in my opinion), these fights will occur as they sort themselves out, find out where they sit in the pecking order etc, and get older!.  Sounds like you've already identified some triggers.  therefore you can prevent a fight starting because you don't allow such situations to occur.  I've never had a group of male dogs before, but would not rush out to neuter them at the moment (there are some good links on this site about neutering).  Give it time and see how you go.  Thats what i did, and they all turned out happy well balanced canines

[CJAce1961]

Hi everyone, just thought i would post an update. We did get a behavourist round who pointed out many things we had been doing wrong. She advised certain things we needed to do and has always been there to give advice when we needed it. We basically had to make our dogs understand that we were the pack leaders not them. Over the last 6 weeks or so it has been trying at times, but i am pleased to say that the fighting between our oldest dog and the young one has stopped. We have actually found them playing together just like they did when they were young. It is amazing really as we originally thought it was the youngest dog causing the trouble. When we actually watched what was happening we could see our oldest dog was bullying him. This could be in many ways from staring to standing over him. Our youngest dog would sometimes try and walk away, but if he stood his ground the problems began.
I would just like to thank people for their advice, but also say that if anyone does have issues, it does help to get the advice of someone who understands they way a dog thinks and behaves. We now feel all is much calmer in our household, and the 3 dogs seem much more relaxed with no tension.
At times we really did think that we may have had to let the young dog go to another home, which would have been so upsetting, as he plays everyday for at least an hour with our middle dog. It is so lovely to see them playing, taking turns rolling over and chasing round the garden. The plants take a battering, but thats not a problem. Im sure we will get the occasional spat but once you know the signs to look for, just gently leading one into isolation for 5 mins does the trick.
If anyone else is having problems, i would just like to point out there are people who can help out there, and this forum has many people who will point you in the right direction, as they did for us. Many thanks for all your help and advice regards, Debbie

[abkb]

Just want to warn you that you may receive replies from forum members here who know lots about how pack leader/dominance theories have been disproven, and can be harmful for your dogs 

[Bluebell]

Really pleased that harmony has been restored to your home 
What ever you are doing combined with the advice you have been given, obviously works, which is all you could ask for   

[Top Barks]

Really pleased that harmony has been restored to your home 
What ever you are doing combined with the advice you have been given, obviously works, which is all you could ask for   

Can i ask what exercises or instructions they gave you that you think has helped? Glad things have improved for you.

[CJAce1961]

It was quite simple really. We had read many books hat were recommended, but the main things we were advised to do were to not make a fuss of them as soon as we entered a room, Just carry on as normal and they settled down quickly, then after 5 mins we could call them and make a fuss as normal. If we sensed there was going to be trouble between them either walk between them to seperate them or gently lead them away from each other. If one really played up just put them in another room for around 5 mins and then let them back in. We were advised it is important not to shout or lose our temper, smack or punish the dog in any way.
We had a few other issues like pulling on the lead, and were advised to just turn around until they stop pulling etc and that seems to have worked as well.
We never had any problems at feed times etc, and when i have read about some peoples dogs biting them i realise that our problems were not in the same category as theirs, but i was concerned that one of the dogs would need to be rehomed. We can now see that if we make a fuss of one or the other the one not getting the fuss is still relaxed and knows he will be getting a fuss as well.
To be honest we were not really concerned if they pulled a bit on the lead, or occcasionaly misbehaved, but were concerned that their fighting may have ended up with one of them being hurt. However, if anyone has any other advice we are always ready to listen, but it does seem as though our dogs seem happy in each others company once more.